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> any new things under development ?
HyperReality
post Mar 4 2008, 11:19 AM
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QUOTE (null_pointer @ Mar 4 2008, 10:14 AM) *
This means you can click the EPG item then click Close, Add or Auto-Add and that is it, it is one extra click I don't see the advantage of removing a single click.

Again please explain the attraction of removing this single extra click.

In my experience, and I'm sure yours too, removing even a single click (and subsequent wait for a page load), where possible, can improve useability of an application considerably. Keeping users within the same context (ie on the EPG page), rather than creating a new context (popup/dialog) to complete an action, I find to also be good useability practice.

So, I was trying to list a bunch of suggestions that I thought would be relatively simple to do, which would not be detrimental to the look and feel of the existing UI, but which would reduce the amount of clicks, popups, etc that are required for the most common actions in the application.

Seeing as scheduling once-off items via the EPG appears to be a common action (particularly for more casual users who may find the Auto-Add functionality a bit complicated), I considered this one area where there was an option for click reduction. The same reason why I suggested making the top label a link to the status page, and adding extra schedules and information to the status page - all about making needing less clicks to get to the desired information.

I'm not really fussed either way, I just thought the feedback might be helpful to you.

This post has been edited by HyperReality: Mar 4 2008, 11:22 AM
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frednerk33
post Mar 4 2008, 12:02 PM
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QUOTE (null_pointer @ Mar 4 2008, 09:44 AM) *
can someone explain the attraction of this please, I am struggling to understand why this is so attractive to people.


Sure, from my end-user dummy's perspective it becomes a 1-click add-a-schedule process rather than 2. I'm OK with a "no", was just supporting a usability suggestion. Works well as it is.

QUOTE (null_pointer @ Mar 2 2008, 05:38 PM) *
You can edit the javascript function that does the popup, the function is called showTitle(urlToShow) and is in a file called:
C:\Program Files\DVB Web Scheduler Pro\data\xsl\epg-Vertical.xsl
change the values:
CODE
var popW = 600;
var popH = 450;

to the values you need.


Thanks,
CODE
var popW = 600;
var popH = 600;

works very nicely for me in Adelaide.
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null_pointer
post Mar 4 2008, 12:36 PM
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QUOTE
In my experience, and I'm sure yours too, removing even a single click (and subsequent wait for a page load), where possible, can improve useability of an application considerably. Keeping users within the same context (ie on the EPG page), rather than creating a new context (popup/dialog) to complete an action, I find to also be good useability practice.

I disagree, especially in a web application environment, a browser pop up is displayed imediatly, the content loads slower and may take a few seconds but the user gets instant feedback that an action has taken place.
The suggested alternative is to just add the schedule and redirect back tot he EPG page, clicking/add/redirecting all give no user feedback that an action is taking place thus if the system or connection is a little slow they will click multiple times which potentially will cause problems with unwanted actions performed.

QUOTE
So, I was trying to list a bunch of suggestions that I thought would be relatively simple to do, which would not be detrimental to the look and feel of the existing UI, but which would reduce the amount of clicks, popups, etc that are required for the most common actions in the application.

yes and this is a very important step, but it is also a very personal one, each person will have different requirements here, I have picked the one that I feel is the best for most situations.
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Guest_steveo_*
post Mar 4 2008, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE
how are these two items related? what has editing the schedule after you add it got to do with adding a schedule by single clicking on the item in the epg or have I missed something here.
QUOTE


Null, I re-read the dot point, I'm the one that is confused! What I'm suggesting is this -

You click on an EPG item, this takes you to the popup window, in this window I would like a 3rd choice that would add the item to the schedule and open the schedule form so that you can modify the selection settings such a weekly or select a different capture path. When the item is submitted, you are returned to the EPG view
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null_pointer
post Mar 4 2008, 08:18 PM
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Some of the changes and suggestion is the latest test build:

http://www.bluebit.com.au/cms.php?id=4

It would be good if people could test and see if they work.
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null_pointer
post Mar 5 2008, 02:32 PM
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QUOTE
One follow-up suggestion is that you could consider as an intermediate solution just having some of these sorts of configuration items in a text based config file that could be manually edited, and forgo the need to add any web based gui for them.


this is the aproach I have used in some places like the user authentication list etc.
Another option is move all the things like table styles to a style sheet file and the user could just edit that, a style sheet file is much easier to edit then an XSL file. True you will not be able to change layout structure but you will be able to change table width, colours etc.

What has been added in the latest test build:
CODE
Version 5.0.0.20

    * [bugfix] Use thread locking when a task is checking time to next and concurrent schedule check
    * [added] sub net matching to trusted IP system
    * [added] a home link to the main logo icon on all pages
    * [added] channels css to allow user setting of channel title bg colour
    * [added] now link to jump to today's date and time in the EPG
    * [added] program name to title mouse over popup test in EPG
    * [added] add ajax style intelligent refresh system to main status page and schedule list page
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Nigel Percy
post Mar 5 2008, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (null_pointer @ Mar 5 2008, 04:32 AM) *
* [bugfix] Use thread locking when a task is checking time to next and concurrent schedule check
* [added] sub net matching to trusted IP system
* [added] a home link to the main logo icon on all pages
* [added] channels css to allow user setting of channel title bg colour
* [added] now link to jump to today's date and time in the EPG
* [added] program name to title mouse over popup test in EPG
* [added] add ajax style intelligent refresh system to main status page and schedule list page[/code]


Thanks, some of these are going to be very useful. I'll give you some testing feedback soon.

I was just wondering if you have had a chance to look at adding the Channel and Time Span parameters to the EPG Search?
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murrayt
post Mar 5 2008, 08:11 PM
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Yes

The quick response to requests for changes was amazing!

I'll try the new features in the next couple of days and give some feedback
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convas
post Mar 5 2008, 08:12 PM
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I would like the ability to somehow "group?" SD and HD channels and automatically select which stream to record when both are showing the same program at the same time.
At the moment I have to manually deselect one of the recordings or I end up with two recordings of the same program one in SD and another in HD.
I know that you can add the channel in the match list but that reduces the flexibility.
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null_pointer
post Mar 5 2008, 09:30 PM
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QUOTE (Nigel Percy)
I was just wondering if you have had a chance to look at adding the Channel and Time Span parameters to the EPG Search?

it will be in the next test build.

QUOTE (convas)
I would like the ability to somehow "group?" SD and HD channels and automatically select which stream to record when both are showing the same program at the same time.
At the moment I have to manually deselect one of the recordings or I end up with two recordings of the same program one in SD and another in HD.
I know that you can add the channel in the match list but that reduces the flexibility.

The latest RELEASE (5.0.0.19) version should not add it twice, it does a created from check, that is it checks if a schedule already exists for a program that was added using the Auto-Add or manual epg add system that matches the name, start time and duration. If one already exists then it does not add the second one. This works if you have two WS channels mapped to the same EPG data source channel, i.e. channel 7 and Channel 7HD mapped to channel seven in the guide data. The order of the mapping will determine which channel gets the schedule added. I have tested this and it works fine for me.
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convas
post Mar 5 2008, 11:38 PM
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QUOTE (null_pointer @ Mar 5 2008, 10:30 PM) *
The latest RELEASE (5.0.0.19) version should not add it twice, it does a created from check, that is it checks if a schedule already exists for a program that was added using the Auto-Add or manual epg add system that matches the name, start time and duration. If one already exists then it does not add the second one. This works if you have two WS channels mapped to the same EPG data source channel, i.e. channel 7 and Channel 7HD mapped to channel seven in the guide data. The order of the mapping will determine which channel gets the schedule added. I have tested this and it works fine for me.


Hi Null Pointer,
I just tried 5.0.0.19 on my test machine and still got duplicates, although if I understand the above correctly it would not solve my situation as 7sd/7hd would use different EPG data source channel (as programs can vary), same with 10sd/10hd.
To test I set 9sd/9hd to same data source and still got duplicates there also.
I have attached some screen shots to clarify.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  ws1.jpg ( 80.12K ) Number of downloads: 17
Attached File  ws2.jpg ( 54.65K ) Number of downloads: 10
 
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null_pointer
post Mar 6 2008, 09:50 AM
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QUOTE
To test I set 9sd/9hd to same data source and still got duplicates there also.
I have attached some screen shots to clarify.

I think the problem with your test is the duplicate mapping for Nine Digital HD, remove the second mapping
i.e. remove
Nine Digital HD -> Nine HD
and try again
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null_pointer
post Mar 6 2008, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (frednerk33)
OK, thanks. Set "Capture Details Path" to "same" but don't seem to get a log. v5.0.0.16. Is there a Help button I'm missing ?

sorry there was a bug with this, I have found and fixed it and the next test build will have the fix.
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null_pointer
post Mar 6 2008, 06:30 PM
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Latest test build:

http://www.bluebit.com.au/cms.php?id=4

QUOTE
Version 5.1.0.0

* [bugfix] details path setting for "same", this would not save the info file at all
* [added] channel, search type and time span to the epg search
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frednerk33
post Mar 6 2008, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE (null_pointer @ Mar 6 2008, 06:03 PM) *
I have found and fixed it and the next test build will have the fix.


Thanks. Just installed 5.1.0.0 to try. Nice.

Just wondering what is the effect of saying "no" to replacing the server.prop (or whatever it is) during install ? I said yes, and then had to reload my previously saved settings and not sure if that's linked.

Also, would it be possible to "default" the java binary folder to the previous installed version's setting during installation, as I seem to have to change that every install time from ...system32 to "C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin" ? Just a trivial one.

Cheerio
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null_pointer
post Mar 6 2008, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE
Just wondering what is the effect of saying "no" to replacing the server.prop (or whatever it is) during install ? I said yes, and then had to reload my previously saved settings and not sure if that's linked.

server.prop is your setting, replacing it with the default will wipe your setting as you have found out.

QUOTE
Also, would it be possible to "default" the java binary folder to the previous installed version's setting during installation, as I seem to have to change that every install time from ...system32 to "C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin" ? Just a trivial one.

What happens if you leave the path set to system32? It should still work, does it?
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convas
post Mar 6 2008, 07:52 PM
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QUOTE (null_pointer @ Mar 6 2008, 10:50 AM) *
I think the problem with your test is the duplicate mapping for Nine Digital HD, remove the second mapping
i.e. remove
Nine Digital HD -> Nine HD
and try again


Hi Nullpointer,
I tried the above and it did work but does not help with 7 and 10 as some of the SD/HD programs are different so I could not use the same guide source.
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null_pointer
post Mar 6 2008, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE
I tried the above and it did work but does not help with 7 and 10 as some of the SD/HD programs are different so I could not use the same guide source.

I think the only way you are going to get around this is use channel conditions in your auto-adds.
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HyperReality
post Mar 7 2008, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (null_pointer @ Mar 5 2008, 02:32 PM) *
this is the aproach I have used in some places like the user authentication list etc.
Another option is move all the things like table styles to a style sheet file and the user could just edit that, a style sheet file is much easier to edit then an XSL file. True you will not be able to change layout structure but you will be able to change table width, colours etc.

Yes, that's one possibility - it would just be nice to have some way that customisations don't get blatted on every update, as it really does get annoying having to remember all the customisations and re-edit every time a new version is installed....

QUOTE
What has been added in the latest test build:
CODE
Version 5.0.0.20
    * [added] a home link to the main logo icon on all pages
    * [added] now link to jump to today's date and time in the EPG
    * [added] program name to title mouse over popup test in EPG

Thanks for those improvements. These all appear to work as expected for me. I would have made the "DVB Web Scheduler Pro" text part of the <a> though... wink.gif

QUOTE
CODE
    * [added] add ajax style intelligent refresh system to main status page and schedule list page

This doesn't work as I was expecting it to. It's great in rapidly picking up alterations to the schedule, etc, but doesn't keep the times to next schedule and server time etc up to date.

To make it work how I was expecting it to work, I modified refresh.js as follows:

CODE
// at top
var count = 0;

....

in triggered()
...
   if(lastChange != xmlhttp.responseText || ++count == 30)
   {
       count = 0;
       lastChange = xmlhttp.responseText
       //alert(xmlhttp.responseText);
      location.reload(true);
    }
  }
}

This keeps your code to force the page to reload within 10 seconds if there is a change flagged by the server, but also reloads the page regardless every 5 minutes, which keeps the times to next schedule and server time shown on the page relatively up to date.
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null_pointer
post Mar 7 2008, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE
This doesn't work as I was expecting it to. It's great in rapidly picking up alterations to the schedule, etc, but doesn't keep the times to next schedule and server time etc up to date.

I despise pages that reload for the sake of reloading, this is why I have never just added a meta refresh to all the pages that show live data.

What I have implemented is a system that only refreshes when schedule items change thus limiting the refresh to when it is needed.

True it does not keep the time to next schedule updated but that is a trade off I settled on.

To make a truly dynamic page more DHTML and more AJAX style calls could be set up to just update the bits of the page that need updating, this would make the status page a truly WEB 2.0 page smile.gif that is if you fall for the whole WEB 2.0 crap, it is just DHTML, stupid marketing and sales tards trying to sell old tech in new clothes.


BTW HyperReality thanks for testing and the feedback
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