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> any new things under development ?
frednerk33
post Feb 25 2008, 09:46 PM
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Just wondering if there are any new features under development or consideration for development ?

I'm very happy, and am just wondering if some great new ideas are in the pipeline. rolleyes.gif
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null_pointer
post Mar 2 2008, 09:02 AM
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sorry it took me so long to respond to this one, I missed it, I normally rely on the new messages feature of this forum but sometimes it mises posts.

There is nothing new on the road map at the moment, a few small bug fixes but nothing feature wise.

If people have suggestion or requests then post them here, I do not promise anything but at least it gives a point of discussion. If enough people are all requesting the same things then that is definitely a starting point and worth looking into.
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frednerk33
post Mar 2 2008, 11:01 AM
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QUOTE (null_pointer @ Mar 2 2008, 09:32 AM) *
There is nothing new on the road map at the moment, a few small bug fixes but nothing feature wise.

If people have suggestion or requests then post them here, I do not promise anything but at least it gives a point of discussion. If enough people are all requesting the same things then that is definitely a starting point and worth looking into.


Great ! Fantastic tool, lost without it. Thanks.

Just a thought, then...

VideoReDo has a thing called "quickstreamFix" stream parsing/fixing which works sort of like PVSAStrumento (which I used prior to buying VRD). Would it be possible to add functionality for such gui/commandline functionality so that it could be added as an optional post-processing task ? There's probably open-source around to do it, maybe look at VideoHelp.com and DGIndex-DGAVCDec or the dated PVAstrumento ? Or do a deal with someone to add an optional small amount to the price for a tool added in version ? You could consider "going in" with VideoReDo too ?

On a similar vein, is it then possible to schedule a post-processing task later that night or the next day passing it the path/filename, maybe using XP's task scheduler, so I could schedule tasks post-final-capture so it does not hog CPU whilst capturing ? This may already be possible for all I know smile.gif Hmm, I guess I could look up VideoReDo's quickstreamfix to see if it has a commandline I could do this with... OK for me but no solution for those who haven't bought it.

It seems Europe etc are going to mpeg4 OTA or satellite streams... does WebWscheduler cater for those ? Might make for an international audience and just maybe prepare us in Aus for something like that if our illustrious industry and leaders had any brains (doubtful).
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null_pointer
post Mar 2 2008, 12:01 PM
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QUOTE
Would it be possible to add functionality for such gui/commandline functionality so that it could be added as an optional post-processing task ?


if you are asking if the functionality of VideoReDo can be added to WS then the answer is no, this will never happen, WS records the raw data with no processing so you can pick the best post processing tool for your needs.

There are lots of options for post processing, videoredo is one also ProjectX is another good free one.

QUOTE
is it then possible to schedule a post-processing task later that night or the next day passing it the path/filename, maybe using XP's task scheduler, so I could schedule tasks post-final-capture so it does not hog CPU whilst capturing ?


look at the task options , there are options for this already.

QUOTE
This may already be possible for all I know smile.gif Hmm, I guess I could look up VideoReDo's quickstreamfix to see if it has a commandline I could do this with... OK for me but no solution for those who haven't bought it.


Use ProjectX and a command line mux tool, it will take a bit of BAT glue logic but it can be done for free.

QUOTE
It seems Europe etc are going to mpeg4 OTA or satellite streams... does WebWscheduler cater for those ?

Because WS can record the FULL unaltered TS it should work and allow you to post process or use a player that understands a TS with MPEG4 elemental streams.
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frednerk33
post Mar 2 2008, 12:44 PM
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Thanks, was wondering if you had a strategic direction to venture into stream processing, or to partner with others for penetration or functionality reasons.

Will take a look at the task stuff, as you suggest.

Would it be possible for

a) the pop-up window (with the clicked-on program details) to be configurable so I could set it larger, with a specified font-size too as my eyes are deteriorating. I often need to scroll down in the pop-up to view the last bit of program details.
b) each channel's column to be configurable with its own background colour (with a suggested range of light colours), defaulting as-is.
c) a capture log in the same folder with nearly the same name as the captured file, detailing capture filename channel and device and capture times and signal strengths and likely glitches and other useful details ? Had a quick look but couldn't find one. Maybe one in XML format too ?

Cheerio
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murrayt
post Mar 2 2008, 01:25 PM
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Fred/Null

Not something I have explored - only so many hours in the day but I understand that VRD and VRD TVSuite have a COM interface that can be accessed to for example do a QSF and other things. It may be quite simple to launch the VRD process from WS Pro
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null_pointer
post Mar 2 2008, 05:08 PM
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QUOTE
was wondering if you had a strategic direction to venture into stream processing, or to partner with others for penetration or functionality reasons.


No, WS is a scheduling/capture tool not a processing tool.

QUOTE
the pop-up window (with the clicked-on program details) to be configurable so I could set it larger, with a specified font-size too as my eyes are deteriorating. I often need to scroll down in the pop-up to view the last bit of program details.


You can edit the javascript function that does the popup, the function is called showTitle(urlToShow) and is in a file called:

C:\Program Files\DVB Web Scheduler Pro\data\xsl\epg-Vertical.xsl

change the values:
CODE
var popW = 600;
var popH = 450;

to the values you need.
QUOTE
each channel's column to be configurable with its own background colour (with a suggested range of light colours), defaulting as-is.


again this can be done, you will need to edit the above file again but this time you will need to add some style coding to style each channel as you want it. This is not easy, you will need to understand the XSLT that is used to build the HTML page form the XML raw data.
QUOTE
a capture log in the same folder with nearly the same name as the captured file, detailing capture filename channel and device and capture times and signal strengths and likely glitches and other useful details ? Had a quick look but couldn't find one. Maybe one in XML format too ?

turn on the capture details log file, this contains some of the data you are after. The signal stats and "glitch" details are not available and not useful in the log.
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frednerk33
post Mar 2 2008, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE (null_pointer @ Mar 2 2008, 05:38 PM) *
turn on the capture details log file, this contains some of the data you are after. The signal stats and "glitch" details are not available and not useful in the log.


OK, thanks. Set "Capture Details Path" to "same" but don't seem to get a log. v5.0.0.16. Is there a Help button I'm missing ?
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null_pointer
post Mar 2 2008, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE
OK, thanks. Set "Capture Details Path" to "same" but don't seem to get a log. v5.0.0.16. Is there a Help button I'm missing ?

nope, it should jut drop the info files in the same directory as the capture then.
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HyperReality
post Mar 3 2008, 08:56 AM
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@frednerk33: "jackelectronics" had a script he made available that was designed for WebScheduler to run a VideoReDo Quickstream Fix after as a post-processing task.

His site with the download doesn't appear to exist any more, but you can at least find the details in Google's cache (at the moment anyway, it is the first result): Google search for: "videoredo webscheduler jack".

There are plenty of other references to similar scripts on the VideoReDo Forums.


@null_pointer: while I'm posting in this thread, here are a few of things I though would be nice, simple additions last time I had a play with WS (apologies if these are already available somewhere in the latest version):

* Option to have full width pages (eg home page, schedules page, etc) - eg, if enabled, add a few 'width="100%"' to select places in the output HTML. When using on a high-res monitor, having the pages fill the screen is a nice thing, IMHO. It would also be nice to add some logic to the status/home page to determine how long or short to truncate the names in the Now/Next display, so that extra characters can be shown when the window is wider.

* Option to meta refresh the home page, schedule page, EPG page, etc, with user definable refresh rates (eg home page could be every 5 minutes, but the EPG page only every hour to scroll to the current hour). If you leave WS alway open in a tab, then when you come back to it then it will always be close to having an up-to-date display.

* Make the graphic and "DVB WebScheduler Pro" label at the top of the page always be a link to the home page (or add a home link on every page somewhere), so you always have a quick way to jump to the home page from deep in the system (eg from the second level system pages).

* Add the program name to the EPG tooltip when the program is less than half an hour long. This way it is possible to figure out what the program is even when the name is not visible because the EPG item table cell is too small to show the name. Alternatively, have on onhover hook that expands the EPG item under the mouse so that the text in its table cell is fully visible.

* Single click "add EPG item to schedule" option, eg via a small + icon at the start of the title text in the EPG item/cell. This would avoid the whole "open it in a new window, move the mouse to the top right, click +, close item window" sequence every time you wanted to quickly add a schedule from the EPG (EDIT: note, I don't allow popups - I open them in a new tab, so this can make the system currently being used seem a bit clunky). By putting the + link at the start of the name, it would be possible to add the item to the schedules even when the name is not fully visible because it is only a short program. I'm not talking about replacing the current pop-up when the click occurs elsewhere in the item, just talking about having a shortcut to adding a schedule item.

* Add a "jump to now" button somewhere on the header of the EPG page that will jump to the current day and scroll to the current time.

* Option to show more than just the next schedule on the home page, instead showing a user definable number of schedule items. Also, put more information about the schedule item (eg channel) on the home page - ie make the next schedules info more like the info shown on the current schedules page).

* Option to incorporate auto scanning of EIT EPG data, using a spare tuner when no captures are in progress. If you don't want to incorporate the EPG data scanning into the system, consider adding a "system idle" task that WS can run on a user-defined period when the system is known to have no captures in progress (or going to start in the next X minutes). Alternatively, create a "pre-EPG data load" script run option, plus the option to automatically reload EPG data only when no capturing is in progress (ie load every X hours, but only when there is a gap of Y minutes when nothing is scheduled). This would allow more co-ordinated integration of EIT based EPG grabbing, and could also be extended in the future to auto-rescanning of channels (like some STB do).


While most of these are things that can be simply done by editing the templates, that would be a pain to re-apply all the changes when it comes to updating to a new version, so it would be nice to have the options built-in to the system.

This post has been edited by HyperReality: Mar 3 2008, 09:47 AM
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null_pointer
post Mar 3 2008, 03:08 PM
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Some of this can be done as you have pointed out by editing the templates, this is a personal thing and I have set up what I though at the time look and worked well for me on my test system with different screen sizes etc. I needed to create pages that work in the majority of places/systems.

A lot of the things you have pointed out have the word option next to them, the problem with this word is that to give the user an option in the GUI a lot of coding and back end system logic needs to be built just to allow a simple option to change the page width. If you are not going to build it into the GUI then you might as well leave it where it is and let people edit the template files itself.

Things like the program name in the epg item are difficult, not technically but that is what it used to be and it was changed, for what reason I can not remember but it used to have the name and then the time duration was added for some reason and then the name was dropped.

QUOTE
Option to incorporate auto scanning of EIT EPG data

sorry but this is never going to happen, from my understanding of the allowed usage of the EIT data it would not be allowed.
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murrayt
post Mar 3 2008, 05:58 PM
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null_pointer

Just picking up on the suggestions made by Hyperreality above.

Incorporating the EIT scanning into WS would be great. Using a free/idle tuner to collect the data in an orderly way would be a terrific approach save for SBS which as yet has not progressed to this functionality. an addtional tuner at sub $50 would be a great investment in such a case

I am a bit puzzled as to why you have a view as to how or why the EIT data would be regulated or restricted. Given that this is FTA and any STB/Tuner/TV/etc can access the data and display it to the consumer would seem to be the position. Happy to hear your view or advice on this?

Having looked at your XSL scripts and dowloaded the XSL language reference let me say that hell is going to freeze over before I am able to decipher the logic and then make a prudent change to deliver a different outcome. I imagine there are a good many customers and potential customers who would draw the same conclusion. I read epg_vertical this morning to see if I could even point to the area in which I could change the background colour for a HD channel, and well just at this point I don't have the remotest clue. I'll have to leave it to some smarter folks to give some guidance here. Also given that the scripts cannot be altered or redistributed without the expressed approval of Blue Bit Solutions rather leaves the question open as to who is permitted to do same.

QUOTE
* Make the graphic and "DVB WebScheduler Pro" label at the top of the page always be a link to the home page (or add a home link on every page somewhere), so you always have a quick way to jump to the home page from deep in the system (eg from the second level system pages).


Yep that would be sound and useful

QUOTE
* Single click "add EPG item to schedule" option, eg via a small + icon at the start of the title text in the EPG item/cell. This would avoid the whole "open it in a new window, move the mouse to the top right, click +, close item window" sequence every time you wanted to quickly add a schedule from the EPG (EDIT: note, I don't allow popups - I open them in a new tab, so this can make the system currently being used seem a bit clunky). By putting the + link at the start of the name, it would be possible to add the item to the schedules even when the name is not fully visible because it is only a short program. I'm not talking about replacing the current pop-up when the click occurs elsewhere in the item, just talking about having a shortcut to adding a schedule item.


Yep that would be excellent. The select item step has always been a bugbear of mine

QUOTE
* Option to show more than just the next schedule on the home page, instead showing a user definable number of schedule items. Also, put more information about the schedule item (eg channel) on the home page - ie make the next schedules info more like the info shown on the current schedules page).


Yep that would be good
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null_pointer
post Mar 3 2008, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE
Incorporating the EIT scanning into WS would be great. Using a free/idle tuner to collect the data in an orderly way would be a terrific approach save for SBS which as yet has not progressed to this functionality. an addtional tuner at sub $50 would be a great investment in such a case


The initially information I had on this was that there were restrictions placed on the usage of the data, i.e. it could not be used in DVR type devices without that device complying with some certain criteria.

http://www.freetv.com.au/media/News-Media_...L_TV_040707.pdf

QUOTE
In what will be a major boost to the take-up of free-to-view digital TV, commercial broadcasters will
make their program listing information available to manufacturers of set top boxes, personal video
recorders (PVRs) and other service providers provided the equipment displaying the EPG
complies with some base level requirements designed to protect copyright, protect the integrity of
the program information and facilitate collection of ratings information.


But now I see this one:

http://www.freetv.com.au/media/News-Media_...uide_141107.pdf

That looks like they are being much more open with the data, in fact it looks like they want people to use it freely and openly in all sorts of devices.

So it looks like someone has come to their senses and realised that policing this would be next to impossible and changed the wording on the releases to show a more open approach.

Having said this I am still not adding the EIT scan to WS, I feel this is better done outside the scheduling tool using the command line tool Epgscan/ and a bit of scripting to check for active and pending schedules:

http://www.bluebit.com.au/cms.php?id=24

to grab the data at say 1 am only if no schedulers are running or about to run.

QUOTE
Make the graphic and "DVB WebScheduler Pro" label at the top of the page always be a link to the home page

yes this is something that can be done without changing the layout or structure of the pages.

QUOTE
Yep that would be excellent. The select item step has always been a bugbear of mine

overall I have had perhaps 3 people state their dislike of this, removing it would cause more issues and adding an option would be a lot of work for little gain.

QUOTE
Option to show more than just the next schedule on the home page, instead showing a user definable number of schedule items.

This is just to show how far or close the NEXT schedule is, if you want the full list check the schedule page, I know you already knew this and I am stating the obvious but that is the intended use of the home status page just to get a quick overview of the status of the system.

QUOTE
Also, put more information about the schedule item (eg channel) on the home page - ie make the next schedules info more like the info shown on the current schedules page).

Again that is what the full schedules list page is for.
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Guest_steveo_*
post Mar 3 2008, 07:07 PM
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I also support Hyperreality's suggestion of single click EPG to schedule as a good one. Majority of my EPG schedule selections require me to edit the change by either selecting weekly recording or adjusting the start and finish times especially if the program follows sport or some commercial station reality shows!
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null_pointer
post Mar 3 2008, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE
I also support Hyperreality's suggestion of single click EPG to schedule as a good one. Majority of my EPG schedule selections require me to edit the change by either selecting weekly recording or adjusting the start and finish times especially if the program follows sport or some commercial station reality shows!

how are these two items related? what has editing the schedule after you add it got to do with adding a schedule by single clicking on the item in the epg or have I missed something here.
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murrayt
post Mar 3 2008, 08:59 PM
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null_pointer

Just to add some reality to the questions raised.

Many of us (indeed you wrote the software) recorded FTA programs in an environmet where (at that time) technically it was against the (then) Law to record FTA programs. I had and still have a little used VCR device which was used to contavene the law.

Given you see no difficulty in reading the EIT data, I'm puzzled why you would see a concern in not integrating a capability to read and store the EIT data. Many of your potential customers would lack the ability to easily perform these sub-activities in order to use WS-Pro effectively.

It's just a thought?
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null_pointer
post Mar 3 2008, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE
Many of us (indeed you wrote the software) recorded FTA programs in an environmet where (at that time) technically it was against the (then) Law to record FTA programs. I had and still have a little used VCR device which was used to contavene the law.

agreed, I am not taking a legal stand on this in any way, this is purely a product development decision.
QUOTE
Given you see no difficulty in reading the EIT data, I'm puzzled why you would see a concern in not integrating a capability to read and store the EIT data. Many of your potential customers would lack the ability to easily perform these sub-activities in order to use WS-Pro effectively.

I am not trying to make the product a simple 3 clicks and your done system, I am trying to make it versatile, robust and reliable, over the years I have resisted certain calls to do things that I feel would detract from the overall stability, reliability and versatility.

I remember calls to have the scrappers integrated into the app at one point, yes the grabber/scrapper I wrote was reliable and worked but it broke and now is useless, merging this with the main product would have been a bad idea.

In fact I did add a custom EPG source to the product in the very beginning, the D1 epg service was added to the base product and worked well for a number of years. This service should have never added to the product, I did it trying to make people lives easier but then it got to the point of people assuming that they got EPG data when they purchased the product. So what happens when channel X stops producing data or starts transmitting incorrect data, the product gets called all sorts of names by people that just don't know the data source is not part of the product.

Yes this is extreme but in the long run it is my potential error to make and based on past experience and present circumstances I chose not to add it to the product.
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frednerk33
post Mar 4 2008, 08:54 AM
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QUOTE (steveo @ Mar 3 2008, 07:37 PM) *
I also support Hyperreality's suggestion of single click EPG to schedule as a good one.


Just a gentle +1 to adding a "+" or something for a 1-click add-the-capture.

Another thought, if it's to hard to parameterize the concept of say a different background colour for each channel, then would it be possible to add to the documentation on how to do this so as to make it easy for dummies like me (and repeatable for when new releases come along) ? Even a "click here for printable instructions and example" which gets updated across release changes would be helpful smile.gif
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null_pointer
post Mar 4 2008, 09:14 AM
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QUOTE
Just a gentle +1 to adding a "+" or something for a 1-click add-the-capture.

can someone explain the attraction of this please, I am struggling to understand why this is so attractive to people.

Here is the original request
QUOTE
Single click "add EPG item to schedule" option, eg via a small + icon at the start of the title text in the EPG item/cell. This would avoid the whole "open it in a new window, move the mouse to the top right, click +, close item window" sequence every time you wanted to quickly add a schedule from the EPG (EDIT: note, I don't allow popups - I open them in a new tab, so this can make the system currently being used seem a bit clunky). By putting the + link at the start of the name, it would be possible to add the item to the schedules even when the name is not fully visible because it is only a short program. I'm not talking about replacing the current pop-up when the click occurs elsewhere in the item, just talking about having a shortcut to adding a schedule item.


So from Hypers point of view he has disabled part of his browser functionality to stop popups thus has to open the info window in a new tabbed window, this means he has to close the tabbed window after clicking the add button. In the normal usage you only need to click the Add or Auto-Add icon and the popup closes automatically.

This means you can click the EPG item then click Close, Add or Auto-Add and that is it, it is one extra click I don't see the advantage of removing a single click. It is not like you are reteating this action over and over hundreds of time, a dozen or so might be the extent of your adding unless I have gotten this totally wrong and people are adding h8ndreds of schedules this way each day.

Again please explain the attraction of removing this single extra click.
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HyperReality
post Mar 4 2008, 11:03 AM
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QUOTE (null_pointer @ Mar 3 2008, 04:08 PM) *
Some of this can be done as you have pointed out by editing the templates, this is a personal thing and I have set up what I though at the time look and worked well for me on my test system with different screen sizes etc. I needed to create pages that work in the majority of places/systems.

No worries, I understand. You asked for suggestions, so I was just giving a list of idea based on my experiences with the product, on the off-chance it would be the catalyst for some helpful/useful discussion and constructive feedback from other users that would be helpful when deciding where to place your development time.

QUOTE
A lot of the things you have pointed out have the word option next to them, the problem with this word is that to give the user an option in the GUI a lot of coding and back end system logic needs to be built just to allow a simple option to change the page width. If you are not going to build it into the GUI then you might as well leave it where it is and let people edit the template files itself.

As a software engineer, I understand the pain that comes from "adding an option". wink.gif

Personally, I'm not adverse to editing the templates, apart from the fact that it doesn't solve the problem of the changes being blatted when updating to a new version. I can also see the points made above that a lot of customers wouldn't know the first place to start when it comes to making these sorts of changes.

One follow-up suggestion is that you could consider as an intermediate solution just having some of these sorts of configuration items in a text based config file that could be manually edited, and forgo the need to add any web based gui for them. Then updating becomes just a matter of changing one config file after an update rather than having to remember where to make changes in multiple templates. If you were feeling particularly nice, you could automatically merge the new and old config files on first run after an update (though that's probably more effort than it is worth). I suppose it comes down to the pain/time involved in moving from a Java serialised object approach to configuration versus a text/XML based one... (probably lots of work for not much overall gain).
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