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> open source version of ws
Guest_dns_*
post Apr 24 2007, 07:33 AM
Post #1





Guests






As websheduler has now gone closed source in a commercial version of the project i would like to continue an open source version of the project in some form.

The source code for the previous version 4.0.14 is still under the gpl till the point and is available from this thread. I would like to continue to have an open source version of the project but it is not going to work if it is only me working on it, we could use your help and not all the tasks are going to be coding.

If the open source project is going to go ahead a few changes are going to be required.
1. We need to decide on a project name, websheduler should exist with the commercial version and it should be trademarked (do it if you have not yet null), to avoid confusion.
2. We need to setup somewhere to communicate and coordinate our work, If possible it would be nice to have a section in this forum, who is the owner?
3. We also need to decide where we are going to store the source code, sourceforge.net, code.google.com and berlios.de are good places to use.
4. In relation to 1, we will need to change all references to the new name of the project, there are probly also logo's which might need to be changed as well etc.
5. we should also discuss if we are going to keep or break compatibility with ws, this includes things like themes etc, there are a lot of things that are great with the code but some things i would like to rewrite like using packages.

Are there any features that you would like implemented in this open source version.
One thing I would like to work on is the ability to specify what capture engine you want, ether the current engine written by null, one written using videolan on windows. On the linux side it should be possible to set up scripts to use dvb-zap (the current method), tzap (it should be in most distributions), vlc, gst-launch, mplayer. If anyone wants a port to another os it should be straight forward to do, basically i want the ability to specify a long list of command line arguments to the capture engine in a way that makes it easy to just drop one in.

Are there any other features you want worked on this open source version?

There are probly a few other things that would be nice to have done, at the moment the source code is all in the same directory, it would be nice to have some refactoring done and have the code split into packages. It would also be nice to redesign the archatecture a little, the web interface and the capture engine are tightly bound together, it would be nice to have them more separate which if done right would make it possible to have several different front ends.
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black_dog
post Apr 24 2007, 02:02 PM
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QUOTE (dns @ Apr 24 2007, 07:33 AM) *
As websheduler has now gone closed source in a commercial version of the project i would like to continue an open source version of the project in some form.

The source code for the previous version 4.0.14 is still under the gpl till the point and is available from this thread. I would like to continue to have an open source version of the project but it is not going to work if it is only me working on it, we could use your help and not all the tasks are going to be coding.

If the open source project is going to go ahead a few changes are going to be required.
1. We need to decide on a project name, websheduler should exist with the commercial version and it should be trademarked (do it if you have not yet null), to avoid confusion.
2. We need to setup somewhere to communicate and coordinate our work, If possible it would be nice to have a section in this forum, who is the owner?
3. We also need to decide where we are going to store the source code, sourceforge.net, code.google.com and berlios.de are good places to use.
4. In relation to 1, we will need to change all references to the new name of the project, there are probly also logo's which might need to be changed as well etc.
5. we should also discuss if we are going to keep or break compatibility with ws, this includes things like themes etc, there are a lot of things that are great with the code but some things i would like to rewrite like using packages.

Are there any features that you would like implemented in this open source version.
One thing I would like to work on is the ability to specify what capture engine you want, ether the current engine written by null, one written using videolan on windows. On the linux side it should be possible to set up scripts to use dvb-zap (the current method), tzap (it should be in most distributions), vlc, gst-launch, mplayer. If anyone wants a port to another os it should be straight forward to do, basically i want the ability to specify a long list of command line arguments to the capture engine in a way that makes it easy to just drop one in.

Are there any other features you want worked on this open source version?

There are probly a few other things that would be nice to have done, at the moment the source code is all in the same directory, it would be nice to have some refactoring done and have the code split into packages. It would also be nice to redesign the archatecture a little, the web interface and the capture engine are tightly bound together, it would be nice to have them more separate which if done right would make it possible to have several different front ends.


How about a windows GUI ?
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Guest_dns_*
post Apr 24 2007, 05:49 PM
Post #3





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As the web interface is tightly bound with the capture engine a gui would be a bit of work with what we currently have.
Are there any developers that know any of the rpc methods? I know RMI, Corba and socket programming. Does anyone have experience writing a web service or useing jini as these are more modern options. The ideal eventual goal is a well organised source code tree and really good set of public api's to make things like adding a gui much easier.

Do we have anyone with experience in software engineering? I would find it useful if someone with experience would help me with some designing.

Back to your idea, I have a bit of experience in building a gui in java useing awt and swing and building it is relatively easy but the harder part is connecting the application with ws.

Any more ideas?
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black_dog
post Apr 24 2007, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE (dns @ Apr 24 2007, 05:49 PM) *
As the web interface is tightly bound with the capture engine a gui would be a bit of work with what we currently have.
Are there any developers that know any of the rpc methods? I know RMI, Corba and socket programming. Does anyone have experience writing a web service or useing jini as these are more modern options. The ideal eventual goal is a well organised source code tree and really good set of public api's to make things like adding a gui much easier.

Do we have anyone with experience in software engineering? I would find it useful if someone with experience would help me with some designing.

Back to your idea, I have a bit of experience in building a gui in java useing awt and swing and building it is relatively easy but the harder part is connecting the application with ws.

Any more ideas?


Sorry, I thought you'd been around this forum long enough to spot a troll.. but I admit the call for a
gui on web scheduler was a pretty old one.

http://forums.dvbowners.com/index.php?showtopic=4775

This post has been edited by black_dog: Apr 24 2007, 06:11 PM
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black_dog
post Apr 24 2007, 06:27 PM
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QUOTE (dns @ Apr 24 2007, 07:33 AM) *
As websheduler has now gone closed source in a commercial version of the project i would like to continue an open source version of the project in some form.

The source code for the previous version 4.0.14 is still under the gpl till the point and is available from this thread. I would like to continue to have an open source version of the project but it is not going to work if it is only me working on it, we could use your help and not all the tasks are going to be coding.

If the open source project is going to go ahead a few changes are going to be required.
1. We need to decide on a project name, websheduler should exist with the commercial version and it should be trademarked (do it if you have not yet null), to avoid confusion.
2. We need to setup somewhere to communicate and coordinate our work, If possible it would be nice to have a section in this forum, who is the owner?
3. We also need to decide where we are going to store the source code, sourceforge.net, code.google.com and berlios.de are good places to use.
4. In relation to 1, we will need to change all references to the new name of the project, there are probly also logo's which might need to be changed as well etc.
5. we should also discuss if we are going to keep or break compatibility with ws, this includes things like themes etc, there are a lot of things that are great with the code but some things i would like to rewrite like using packages.

Are there any features that you would like implemented in this open source version.
One thing I would like to work on is the ability to specify what capture engine you want, ether the current engine written by null, one written using videolan on windows. On the linux side it should be possible to set up scripts to use dvb-zap (the current method), tzap (it should be in most distributions), vlc, gst-launch, mplayer. If anyone wants a port to another os it should be straight forward to do, basically i want the ability to specify a long list of command line arguments to the capture engine in a way that makes it easy to just drop one in.

Are there any other features you want worked on this open source version?

There are probly a few other things that would be nice to have done, at the moment the source code is all in the same directory, it would be nice to have some refactoring done and have the code split into packages. It would also be nice to redesign the archatecture a little, the web interface and the capture engine are tightly bound together, it would be nice to have them more separate which if done right would make it possible to have several different front ends.


More flexible filename patterns (%s for subtitle for instance). Ability to specify '\'s and have subdirectories automatically created. Its an old one I've
always asked for.

Ability to have multiple capture paths (like the multiple filename patterns) and select the path per 'auto add item', or automatically
fail to an alternate path when one appears too full to hold a recording.

Skins.. I'm bored with blue, and as some pages are templates, some are static, some are XSLT and some are
generated internally, making a new skin at the moment requires alot of knowledge and some editing of the source.

Player.. or more specifically, embedded objects (quicktime, or mediaplayer) so while looking at a recorded file, you
can play it. with an option to make it full screen... with further options to automatically transcode it depending on
bandwidth and available codecs at the client side.

Scheduled Reboot. - I often need to reboot the machine, but must wait until recordings are complete. I would like to
hit a checkbox (or tick in the wstray menu) which will reboot the server when recording is idle.

WSTray improvements.. http://forums.dvbowners.com/index.php?showtopic=7574



Null asked a similar question some time ago, you could browse the requests people made back then, and
maybe take on a few that got missed... http://forums.dvbowners.com/index.php?showtopic=7371
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Guest_KenS_*
post Apr 25 2007, 05:18 AM
Post #6





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QUOTE (dns @ Apr 23 2007, 10:33 PM) *
1. We need to decide on a project name, websheduler should exist with the commercial version and it should be trademarked (do it if you have not yet null), to avoid confusion.

My first thought was WatchIt with the advantage of the Aussie pronunciation giving it another spin. But theres a million products/services already out there with that name.
I like the idea of a previewer along the lines of the VLC activeX plug-in and/or network streaming so I can preview from afar.
Ability to playback from the schedule page would also be good.
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tre30
post Apr 26 2007, 10:40 AM
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names? dvbscheduler (bit similar too previous), dvbepg-capture or dvbepg-record (dvbepg-grabber), or catcher, dvbepg-timeshifter?

In terms of open source, sourceforge is a well established place too host it, known by everyone as being the open source software repository.

I have some experience in software development and am willing too devote some time too this as its something I have an interest in, that being said my directshow knowledge is redimentary, but I wouldn't call myself fluent as yet, I guess all it takes is for me too really have a crack at it and I should pick it up ok.

I guess all it comes down too is someone willing too write up a plan, as it stands the source is functional, how far are you willing too go? change it all? change bits? If you are going too redo the capture engine or use vlc as the capture engine then it will require rewriting the the java service too allow for that, but it could be much more portable as linux has vlc as well.

I know that many would like a functional tray menu, myself included, not really the hardest thing too implement I don't believe.

So I guess that makes 3 areas of interest - java service, vlc bda module (that still needs work I think, maybe not for capture, but for live definately), and the tray.
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Guest_schmick_*
post Apr 27 2007, 01:04 AM
Post #8





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> 1. We need to decide on a project name, websheduler should exist with the
> commercial version and it should be trademarked (do it if you have not yet
> null), to avoid confusion.

Sure.

> 2. We need to setup somewhere to communicate and coordinate our work,
> If possible it would be nice to have a section in this forum, who is the owner?

Can’t we have multiple owners, anyway sounds like you're putting
your hand up...
Such a forum should of course focus on development though not support...

> 3. We also need to decide where we are going to store the source code, sourceforge.net,
> code.google.com and berlios.de are good places to use.

Not sure why Null changed from SF to Google?
Assume there was a reason so might as well stick
with it, they both have SVN anyway right...

I think the key point WRT all this is to make it trivial
for anyone to come along, branch off the trunk and make
their own system with WHATEVER changes they like.

Lock down the trunk FOR SURE, but DON'T make people ask
twice in order to create and check in their own tweaks or
versions, let them do so on a branch, so everyone else can see it,
and if there is a consensus on the above forum then it can get
merged into the trunk if worthy.

> 4. In relation to 1, we will need to change all references to the new name of
> the project, there are probly also logo's which might need to be changed as well etc.

So after we have a new name, this is the next step, set up a project
in Google Code, throw in the source on the trunk EXACTLY as is per .14,
let anyone start branching away, the first objective
being to create a working version on a branch with new icons/images
which simply works as per the original .14, if someone gets that
going and enough people like it merge it to the trunk
and move on...

> 5. we should also discuss if we are going to keep or break compatibility
> with ws, this includes things like themes etc, there are a lot of things
> that are great with the code but some things i would like to rewrite like
> using packages.

I'm not sure we can even justify discussing this yet let alone doing it.
Is this "packages" thing another troll wink.gif

> Are there any features that you would like implemented in this open source version.

Sure, more stability WRT failed capture starts (maybe not even a
WS issue but just a driver thing however still frustrating to see
program-1.dvr-ms...program-28.dvr-ms for a week every time
I "bump" my PC)

A Linux port.

OK, a bit behind in the forums, only just noticed in between
this and the last sentence that there has been a Linux port for
more than a month!!!...

Maybe after step 4, step 4.5 should be to get some cross platform
conditionals going (if possible and not already done) and unify them.

> Do we have anyone with experience in software engineering?
> I would find it useful if someone with experience would help
> me with some designing.

I would be surprised if that didn’t include at least half of this forum,
but are you talking about SW engineering, SW design, GUI design
or packaging? wink.gif

> Any more ideas?

Some other ideas WRT new development would be:

- integrate some DEFAULT post processing capability,
- make the regexs more powerful,
- make the regexs redundant by coming up with a system
that utilises some hybrid soft-neuro-fuzzy-genetic method
to just tell me WTF I want to watch tongue.gif


Again I think the key point is making it trivial for people
to grab it from SVN, build it, tweak it and send it back
on a branch, the fact that Null has been able to keep
it continually improving and staying on track all this
time is amazing.

It's probably been a couple of years since I last said it,
but thanks again Null!
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Funkdafied
post Apr 27 2007, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE (schmick @ Apr 27 2007, 01:04 AM) *
> 2. We need to setup somewhere to communicate and coordinate our work,
> If possible it would be nice to have a section in this forum, who is the owner?

Can’t we have multiple owners, anyway sounds like you're putting
your hand up...
Such a forum should of course focus on development though not support...

I think he's asking who the owner of these forums is, so we can create our own sub-forum.

QUOTE (schmick @ Apr 27 2007, 01:04 AM) *
> 3. We also need to decide where we are going to store the source code, sourceforge.net,
> code.google.com and berlios.de are good places to use.

Not sure why Null changed from SF to Google?
Assume there was a reason so might as well stick
with it, they both have SVN anyway right...

Personally, I'd prefer SourceForge.. but it's not a big deal.

QUOTE (schmick @ Apr 27 2007, 01:04 AM) *
I think the key point WRT all this is to make it trivial
for anyone to come along, branch off the trunk and make
their own system with WHATEVER changes they like.

So after we have a new name, this is the next step, set up a project
in Google Code, throw in the source on the trunk EXACTLY as is per .14,
let anyone start branching away, the first objective
being to create a working version on a branch with new icons/images
which simply works as per the original .14, if someone gets that
going and enough people like it merge it to the trunk
and move on...

Good points..

QUOTE
> 5. we should also discuss if we are going to keep or break compatibility
> with ws, this includes things like themes etc, there are a lot of things
> that are great with the code but some things i would like to rewrite like
> using packages.

I don't see a need for compatibility.

I suggest we keep specific feature requests out of this thread as it could get very messy.. Either create a new thread or perhaps a page in the Wiki.

At a high level.. First objective should be to get a working version with graphics, as mentioned. Then, I think making the application more modular is not a bad idea. The way I see it, there's 3 main parts.. The capture engine, web server and tray menu. (Edit: perhaps there could be a 4th component? The dynamic web content and it's interaction with the capture engine.) If we separate these, it will make cross-platform development much easier and give us a lot more flexibility. For example, it could allow: use of 3rd party web servers (like Apache), or provision for the user to choose what type of tray icon they'd like to install (I, for one, am happy with it the way it is).

My contribution for a possible name: (DVB) ShowZapper ?

This post has been edited by Funkdafied: Apr 27 2007, 08:18 PM
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bear
post Apr 27 2007, 09:01 PM
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"FreeTVScheduler" ?
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renura
post Apr 27 2007, 09:18 PM
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QUOTE (bear @ Apr 27 2007, 09:01 PM) *
"FreeTVScheduler" ?

That's a great idea........so it will make room for "PayTVScheduler" smile.gif


--------------------
Renura Enterprises Pty Ltd - Owner of DigitalNow and MediaNow- Importers, Distributors and Retailers of Digital TV and other Digital Multimedia Solutions
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bear
post Apr 27 2007, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE
will make room for "PayTVScheduler"
no reference on google, quick you better patent it. laugh.gif
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renura
post Apr 27 2007, 09:51 PM
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QUOTE (bear @ Apr 27 2007, 09:41 PM) *
no reference on google, quick you better patent it. laugh.gif
smile.gif


--------------------
Renura Enterprises Pty Ltd - Owner of DigitalNow and MediaNow- Importers, Distributors and Retailers of Digital TV and other Digital Multimedia Solutions
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Guest_dns_*
post Apr 27 2007, 10:00 PM
Post #14





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FreeTVScheduler, how about digital tv scheduler, or digital tv record is a good start for a name, dvb-sheduler is also good, think of something similar to these.

QUOTE (Funkdafied @ Apr 27 2007, 08:46 PM) *
I think he's asking who the owner of these forums is, so we can create our own sub-forum.

yes that is what i was thinking, we need to work out what we are doing first though.

In the scheme of things it does not matter that much where

I suggest we keep specific feature requests out of this thread as it could get very messy.. Either create a new thread or perhaps a page in the Wiki.
QUOTE (Funkdafied @ Apr 27 2007, 08:46 PM) *
At a high level.. First objective should be to get a working version with graphics, as mentioned. Then, I think making the application more modular is not a bad idea. The way I see it, there's 3 main parts.. The capture engine, web server and tray menu. (Edit: perhaps there could be a 4th component? The dynamic web content and it's interaction with the capture engine.) If we separate these, it will make cross-platform development much easier and give us a lot more flexibility. For example, it could allow: use of 3rd party web servers (like Apache), or provision for the user to choose what type of tray icon they'd like to install (I, for one, am happy with it the way it is).

Well one option is to completely split the capture engine from the interface, this would require a lot of work to do as most of the code would need to be rewritten. If we decide to do this it should be easer to maintain. It would also allow for us to work on different interfaces, if it is done right we should be able to write a gui for managment, an email frontend, telnet, irc and jabber is also easy to write.
The architecture would be:
- scheduler in java, it is responsible for starting the capture engine, I would recommend using rmi, jini or a simple socket based communications protocol for communicating with the web interface.
- capture engine: i would just use the current pre-fork engine as well as calling a different engine from a script (see the linux port)
- web interface: We should use the apache tomcat server and write ether jsp or serverlet pages, jsp would be the easiest for non java programmers to work with.

QUOTE (Funkdafied @ Apr 27 2007, 08:46 PM) *
My contribution for a possible name: (DVB) ShowZapper ?

Too close to tzap or dvb-zap? these are console tools that are used in linux, mainly useful for testing but the linux port does use them to record. How about show recorder?
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Funkdafied
post Apr 28 2007, 09:37 AM
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QUOTE (dns @ Apr 27 2007, 10:00 PM) *
Well one option is to completely split the capture engine from the interface, this would require a lot of work to do as most of the code would need to be rewritten. If we decide to do this it should be easer to maintain. It would also allow for us to work on different interfaces, if it is done right we should be able to write a gui for managment, an email frontend, telnet, irc and jabber is also easy to write.

Another thing that came to mind.. It would allow for us to have multiple backends (capture engines) and a single frontend (which I guess would be a combined front/back-end).
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uryan
post Apr 28 2007, 09:49 AM
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QUOTE (Funkdafied @ Apr 27 2007, 08:16 PM) *
At a high level.. First objective should be to get a working version with graphics, as mentioned. Then, I think making the application more modular is not a bad idea. The way I see it, there's 3 main parts.. The capture engine, web server and tray menu. (Edit: perhaps there could be a 4th component? The dynamic web content and it's interaction with the capture engine.) If we separate these, it will make cross-platform development much easier and give us a lot more flexibility. For example, it could allow: use of 3rd party web servers (like Apache), or provision for the user to choose what type of tray icon they'd like to install (I, for one, am happy with it the way it is).

I would put the scheduling component and the capture engine as seperate part. Actually the scheduling component is closely tied into the web server, but logically they have completely seperate functions (and yes, I think it would be good to see a bit more modularisation here, but thats for a different thread.)

I would be happy to knock up some graphics, although I would like to wait until we have a name. Any ideas for them is appreciated. I am thinking of getting rid of the icons on the systems settings menu and just using one per category (to the left of the links). ATM many do not reflect what they are for, (photos with a spanner for channel mapping?) are repeated or similar, and it just looks cluttered to me.


QUOTE (bear @ Apr 27 2007, 09:01 PM) *
"FreeTVScheduler" ?

So far this is the best name I have heard on this thread. Of course if we want to be trendy in the OSS scene we should prepend any name with 'Open' tongue.gif

BTW, it looks like Rob S is the man to talk to about getting a new forum here
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Funkdafied
post Apr 28 2007, 02:08 PM
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hmm.. "FreeTVScheduler".. is the 'free' referring to FTA or the fact that it's OSS? perhaps both..

I was hoping for something more original.
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bear
post Apr 28 2007, 05:33 PM
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"Free" costs you nothing.
"FreeTV" meant for FTA sources.
"FreeTVScheduler" Freedom to schedule record anything you choose anytime without the need to action.

QUOTE
I was hoping for something more original.
Go for it, maybe "OpenTVScheduler"
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black_dog
post Apr 28 2007, 11:28 PM
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QUOTE (bear @ Apr 28 2007, 05:33 PM) *
"Free" costs you nothing.
"FreeTV" meant for FTA sources.
"FreeTVScheduler" Freedom to schedule record anything you choose anytime without the need to action.

Go for it, maybe "OpenTVScheduler"


For OpenTV?

Maybe OpenScheduler, OpenPVR. (OpenPVR seems to exist, but the last correspondence on the mailing list is 28-4-2004.. I take that as
the date of demise..)

Also, Can I suggest the 'capture engine' not be confused with the 'scheduler'. Break the code into the following imaginary modules:

- Capture engine (pluggable BDA, V4L, V4L2, VLC, or even Analog capture)

- Encoding engine. Does nothing, maybe on-the-fly divx encoding, esp useful for analog capture. I have optus TV which I can
see as an analog source in MythTV. Webscheduler currently won't help me with that.

- Scheduling engine. (Schedule recordings, schedule XMLTV updates, schedule 'EPG AUTO ADD', even schedule 'post capture tasks'
which are either (a) uncoupled from their recording due to time contraints, or (cool.gif delayed due to thread limits.

- Data Engine. Manages back-end data sources including XMLTV, episode guides, watched episodes (to prevent recording
duplicates) managed recordings (to provide front ends with information about available recordings for transcoding,
task operations and streaming. Naturally each recorded show keeps the associated EPG information in the database
and is available to the front end when browsing. Also manages expiring of recordings.. maybe even differentiating between
watched and unwatched.

- Control Engine - Integrates scheduling, capturing, encoding, provides an API for interfaces including
EPG (soap/xml/etc) streaming HTTP/RTSP/etc (including transcoding where supported by the encoding engine)
Adds the ability to allocate a free card to an encoding engine and a stream provider for LIVE TV streaming
with limited timeshift (ie, keep a 30min ring buffer only, not full recording)

- Web Interface
- Tray Interface
- GUI Interface
- Front-End - Media browser/player with support for multiple display heads, multiple sound cards, possibly even remote controls. Supports using the
Control engine via tcp with support for bandwidth limiting (via transcoding) and Live TV w/ timeshifting.

A lot of this can be done using individual parts like VLC, WebScheduler, JTVlan and other things. Integration would be
key.

I'd say 'thats my 2c worth', but it reads like the front page of the mythtv web site :-(


Blacky
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tre30
post Apr 29 2007, 05:02 AM
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QUOTE (black_dog @ Apr 28 2007, 11:28 PM) *
A lot of this can be done using individual parts like VLC, WebScheduler, JTVlan and other things. Integration would be
key.

I'd say 'thats my 2c worth', but it reads like the front page of the mythtv web site :-(
Blacky

Alot of good suggestions there (you have the modularisation right), I guess it comes down too - how far are we willing too go (in terms of extra functionality)?

Having previously been an analog capture card user myself I can understand your desire for its inclusion (encoding module) as well, 'one scheduler too rule them all' and such, and in reality atm Foxtel, Optus and other SatTV/cable users who cannot get access too the direct stream use analog cards too record, so it is a worthy inclusion (but you need a nice machine too do it in reality - old machines couldn't thats for sure).
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