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> talking to mce dongle in vista/7
PBS
post May 30 2010, 10:13 PM
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did you know about the problem when trying to use the mce dongles in vista/7?
the ms driver only accepts cmds from a service...so hip no longer works with it as is...

i've tried the alternate driver and it's just not as reliable...seems like it goes to sleep or something, making new blasts, after long periods of non-use, tend to fail on first digit..
i got around this so far by sending an enter to wake to hardware before any blasts..

the other programs have solved access by using a helper service to relay the cmds, tho i wonder if hip can be run as a service itself, and if that would work..
there is an opensource helper app already out there you could use, made for one of the other pvr softs...[the name escapes me at the moment]

was just wondering if you planned on updating things to be able to work with the service or maybe a way to be sure the hardware is awake before trying to use it? [like sending a quick init before blasting]
i'd hate to have to go to using one of the other clunky progs...many thanks..
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btmi
post May 30 2010, 11:06 PM
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I personally have not used the MCE for years because of reliability issues, and it is the only driver I did not personally write and so I am at a bit of a disadvantage. I have written services before, but none are applications that interact with the user and so I do not think hip is a good candidate for this.

A helper application is probably the best answer but I do not have a huge amount of time to devote to this. If anyone out there has experience with this, let me know what is involved so I can see if something is possible.


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PBS
post May 31 2010, 09:55 AM
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QUOTE (btmi @ May 30 2010, 08:06 AM) *
I personally have not used the MCE for years because of reliability issues, and it is the only driver I did not personally write and so I am at a bit of a disadvantage. I have written services before, but none are applications that interact with the user and so I do not think hip is a good candidate for this.

A helper application is probably the best answer but I do not have a huge amount of time to devote to this. If anyone out there has experience with this, let me know what is involved so I can see if something is possible.


i hear that, i think they made the helper app so they wouldn't have to rewrite the whole main app, and it seems to be pretty easy to interface with..
i'll see if i can't come up with the details necessary and get them to you...
maybe a candidate for a plugin?

Media Portal has the helper app, here's a quote from Event Ghost author..

"The current MceRemote plugin relies on a dll that won't work on Vista/Win7 unless it is called with elevated privileges. This is a known problem, and it arises from the fact that Windows installs the IR receiver's driver with restricted access controls. For more detail, you can reference this thread or this one. http://www.osronline.com/ShowThread.cfm?link=104911 [last post]

In order to solve this problem, I've followed the path MediaPortal took, which is to create a windows service that attaches to the driver. The service is installed and runs at elevated rights, so it can connect to the IR driver. Any received messages are then pushed out on a NamedPipe, which is created at "normal" privilege. A new EG plugin can then connect to this pipe to handle IR events.

One advantage of this is that I pass ANY ir signal to EG for processing, so using this service/plugin allows you to handle any remote, not just the MCE remote."

so might a way to handle other odd remotes too... smile.gif

http://www.eventghost.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1789
is location to find helper service with source code..smile.gif
Stottle may be of help in interfacing with it...
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btmi
post May 31 2010, 10:40 PM
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That is good info. I will check out the code and see what can be done (I also will have to dig up my MCE remote).

My only real problem is time right now as I am trying to get another project off the ground (one that pays my bills) but I will see what I can do.


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PBS
post Jun 1 2010, 11:42 AM
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thanx a bunch...
there's a python script that shows how to access it in there also..
i doubt they'll make any more changes to access so this should be last one needed for these devices..

and MCE dongles are still going strong with win7 versions out now that are also backward compatible..[just more new buttons]
i know lots of hip users would really appreciate it! smile.gif
[it's the only thing stopping me from going full win7 on my pvrs..]

i'm happy to do any testing if you need it...i have several models remote and dongle..
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btmi
post Jun 3 2010, 11:22 PM
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I am hoping to do some Hip dev this weekend, and so I will see how it goes. No promises but if I can get something working I will let you know so you can see if it works.


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PBS
post Jun 3 2010, 11:50 PM
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excellent....i'll be around..should be getting my new itx board in..smile.gif [g45, and only drivers that work are win7 ones,but they rock! full blu-ray and mpeg2 decode]

might also be worth a quick look at the alternate driver as i believe it only needs a delay after init before receiving data as it just always seems to miss the first # blasted...[i send an 'enter' before digits to get around it and it works fine..but slows things down..]
otherwise alt driver works great..
but i'd rather have the native driver as i'm hoping it'll also allow support for the Consumer IR built into my motherboard..[Intel MB's]
[it uses same native driver i believe]
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btmi
post Jun 5 2010, 04:07 PM
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I contacted the author of the alternate dll to see if a delay can be added.

I looked through that code on the Event Ghost forum and I still do not quite understand what is required. If you plug in in the MCE device then isn't the device driver loaded automatically?

One solution to your problem would be to create an interface to the actual service you can download in that post, and so instead of using Event Ghost to send and receive commands you would use Hip. Can you use this setup with Event Ghost now? Is this a solution that could work for you?

If so, out of courtesy I might send the author of that program a note to make sure that he is OK with this.


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PBS
post Jun 5 2010, 10:38 PM
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QUOTE (btmi @ Jun 5 2010, 01:07 AM) *
I contacted the author of the alternate dll to see if a delay can be added.

I looked through that code on the Event Ghost forum and I still do not quite understand what is required. If you plug in in the MCE device then isn't the device driver loaded automatically?

One solution to your problem would be to create an interface to the actual service you can download in that post, and so instead of using Event Ghost to send and receive commands you would use Hip. Can you use this setup with Event Ghost now? Is this a solution that could work for you?

If so, out of courtesy I might send the author of that program a note to make sure that he is OK with this.


from what i understand about it, it's all about this change in driver..
orig win xp driver: HKR,,Security,,"D:P(A;;GA;;;WD)" ; Allow generic-all access to Built-in administrators, Local system, and Network
win7 usbcir driver: HKR,,Security,,"D:P(D;;GA;;;WD)" ; Deny access to the world. Only circlass.sys should be able to open this device.
so the MceIr.dll tries to talk to the driver, and can't cuz it's be denied in security..
the helper service just acts as a security proxy,piping cmds and raising the calling security so it can talk to the device..

so yea, that's what i was thinking..use their service as it is the best way to get around it without changing much existing code..

a bit more info on how they did it, but i'm not sure what point HIP gets codes from, [raw or decoded?] but i think service forwards the raw ir data..
http://www.eventghost.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9480#p9480
so as far as i know, he was also using MceIr.dll to access the device also..so this should still work with it without modification..
only changes on your end should be to redirect the dll to access the service's pipe instead of the device itself..[just guessing]
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PBS
post Jun 5 2010, 11:46 PM
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i may have a fix all-around...biggrin.gif
i found a way to alter the original .inf from win7 and got it to install with the normal security [all-access] but can't run hip on my laptop for some reason...lol
it keeps crashing on startup complaining that ERegistryException in HIP.exe : "Startup" item not found in registry.
tried both new v4 and older v3..

but anyways, if this works, it's the real answer to the problem..no modification needed by you at all if it works..smile.gif
i'll crank up my other pvr to check it out..it already has hip on it.. oops, i replaced 7 on it with xp....darn..could you try it?

i had such a time trying to get the modded .inf to install, finaly just changed the ver # and it worked..
of course it says 'this driver is not signed' but lets me install anyways...and i confirmed it is installed with proper security in device manager..biggrin.gif
it installs fine with modded devcon batch file from the alt driver..

any ideas on the startup item not found? i think it's trying to put shortcut in startup and can't access my startup folder..

[i included the test .inf for you to try]
Attached File(s)
Attached File  MCE_RemoteDriver_win7.zip ( 83.01K ) Number of downloads: 7
 
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PBS
post Jun 6 2010, 06:56 AM
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well i tried it finally on a win7 machine...hip would only see the hid keyboard presses, no blasting, no input recognition..
so modifying the original win driver to be like old xp one doesn't help at all..the only difference looked like the security...
testhid does see keys...but kinda erratic..[more than 2 codes per key sometimes]

may be more of a problem than i thought...

and a little better performance out of the alt driver would suffice for most..[just the blasting,input seems fast enough]
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btmi
post Jun 11 2010, 11:42 PM
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I have no idea about the startup item not found message. Check to see if there is a link to Hip in your startup menu and if is that the link is pointing to the correct location.

The 2 keys problem is common when the original drivers are used because the input is being picked up by the system and translated and Hip is picking them as well.

I have not had time to get to the other solution (from the Event Ghost forum) and it would be helpful for me if you could install and test Event Ghost to see if my using their plugin is actually a viable option (because I do not wnat to do all of the work to find it is not useful).


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PBS
post Jun 12 2010, 03:02 AM
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got around the startup thing..[used another machine...win7 corruption, from too much testing..lol]

the double key thing i was mentioning was with the testHID.exe app only...nothing worked in hip..i meant the HID codes testhid showed...
and i believe that was because of mce remote's 'toggle keys' behavior,which is normal..[but should be only 2 codes, occasionally i got 'noise' codes]
as i was trying to see if HID only acccess from hip was viable...tho i suspect i can't blast with HID access only...

sure, i could setup EG and test for ya...i know service works with EG cuz i installed it when it came out but really hate the ui so didn't keep it..
i'm assuming you want me to test hip with their service..

i'm pretty sure the difference in drivers' performance is the fact that alt one doesn't busy-out dongle, while MS's keeps control over it, and i assume keeps it inited and ready to use...

i wish i could just get an interface to blast with original driver...remote input is easy by re-assigning keys..but i'd lose 'other remote' capability that HIP has..
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PBS
post Jun 22 2010, 08:33 AM
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well i couldn't get the eventghost working for blasting....
but 'ir server suite' works fine in win7 with original driver..smile.gif easy setup and blasting,uses a service for communicating to all hardware..
[there is source code available too, mediaportal community]

but his cmd line blaster is slow as well, it blasts separately for each digit..but reliable..i'll have to see if i can't make a faster one like net2hipsend...

since hip does work in win7 with alt driver, and you can workaround the wakeup problem[blast enter before channels], may be too much of a pain to get working for vista/7 w/native driver than it's worth...

tho i'd really love it if you could...you have the best interface of any of them...wink.gif
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btmi
post Jun 25 2010, 10:44 PM
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PBS - I undersrtand your frustration but it might be a while before I can find a solution becuase this is not so simple. I have the source for the alt driver and so I will see if I can get that to work ( but no promises).

If a simple solution can be found I will find one.


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PBS
post Jun 26 2010, 12:06 AM
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QUOTE (btmi @ Jun 25 2010, 07:44 AM) *
PBS - I undersrtand your frustration but it might be a while before I can find a solution becuase this is not so simple. I have the source for the alt driver and so I will see if I can get that to work ( but no promises).

If a simple solution can be found I will find one.


np...
i actually got blasting working by running hip as a service....smile.gif [at least on xp]
but as a service it doesn't receive window messages so remote input doesn't work..
[you can learn ok, but when in tray it doesn't see win messages anymore,maybe hidden window is simple answer?]

i thought just looking at it backway round, run as service and try to fix input to working...
like a little helper app if need be to grab the user mode input and relay to hip as service..[tho built-in would be better would be better]

but i have to test more in the service mode with cmd line blaster and http server..
i used a program called 'launcher' to make hip a service, but srvany could be used as well..

ir server suite guy just got lucky by designing it from get-go as a service and separate tray app...

i do thank you for continuing with it...this will probably be last really needed update as the os's necessitate it, and are unlikely to change in the area any further for quite some time...[ms changed it for security reasons..b4, rougue apps could control any appliance with ir...now not so easy..]
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PBS
post Jun 26 2010, 09:46 AM
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still can't get hip working in win7 for some reason...the startup thing..
fresh win7 install...still getting a startup entry not found in registry..
i have had it working before, with a much earlier version...so not sure why it keeps giving me this now..multiple times..
am using v4 installer..
any checks for startup folder when cranking up? seems like it's looking for all users startup folder and can't access it for some reason..
maybe disabling any checking status of startmenu item in init would do it..
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btmi
post Jul 21 2010, 03:35 PM
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I have created a test version of Hip here http://www.byremote.com.au/HIP/Beta/HIP.exe which disables the AutoStart options under Vista/Windows 7. Give that a try and if it works you will have to manually make Hip start automatically.


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PBS
post Jul 31 2010, 08:09 AM
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QUOTE (btmi @ Jul 21 2010, 12:35 AM) *
I have created a test version of Hip here http://www.byremote.com.au/HIP/Beta/HIP.exe which disables the AutoStart options under Vista/Windows 7. Give that a try and if it works you will have to manually make Hip start automatically.


sorry, i had been messsing with the drivers so much in 7 i goofed it up and it de-activated on me...
so a quick re-install and all is well...
apparently i had a bad sector on hard drive too...[just one] so autostart is working well..
but still no luck with blasting..
i may try to force the xp driver onto 7..smile.gif

but short of a 'helper' service to relay the data, i'm afraid nothing will work...they've locked it down pretty good this time..
i have a feeling it was because ir is a 'wireless' input method and thus needs security of some kind..
right now i've been using ir server suite, but it was built from the ground up as a service..

i almost had HIP running as a service, i know it can be done..but wondering if it'll lose access to the desktop when running that way..

the site was down so long i get side tracked....but glad ot help if i can..
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btmi
post Aug 8 2010, 03:14 PM
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Sorry about the Hip site...my ISP has really done down-hill recently since it was taken over.

It is not really practical to run Hip as a service because it intereacts regulalrly with the desktop. Unfortunately I do not have the time to try and work this problem out and so unless someone else will come to the rescue otherwise it is the end of the line for the MCE remote, Hip and Windows 7.


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