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> DVB-T Devices for the Future, What would you like?
Guest_Slayer_*
post Apr 4 2007, 04:21 PM
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Currently a user of a Digitalnow Twindvb-t USB tuner.

I would upgrade to a pciex card that featured 2, 3 or 4 DVB-T tuners with F-Type connections on the back (for better signal quality over the standard pal connection as well as stopping the cables from falling out everytime I move the computer from the cabinet)

I would also really like the card to come with the signal sharing built into the drivers i.e all the tuners can be used from the single connected flylead into one of the inputs rather than having to split the signal and run 2, 3 or 4 fly leads

Obviously compatibility with MCE, VMCE, Mediaportal and Webschedular would be a must.

Software wise I haven't used DNTV for a long time but when I did it was nice and quick to setup and use but the one feature that really kept me away was the need to use a third party program to use my MCE remote with the software when most other dvb software was plug and play. If this feature was ever added I'd strongly consider having another look at the dntv software (currently using VMCE and Mediaportal)

*fingers crossed*
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renura
post Apr 4 2007, 04:53 PM
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QUOTE
Currently a user of a Digitalnow Twindvb-t USB tuner.
Hopefully a happy user smile.gif
QUOTE
I would upgrade to a pciex card that featured 2, 3 or 4 DVB-T tuners with F-Type connections on the back (for better signal quality over the standard pal connection as well as stopping the cables from falling out everytime I move the computer from the cabinet)
It is not that simple.....most people use and are happy with standard PAL connectors. I am sure there must be a way for you to organize your cables, so that they don't fall off.

QUOTE
I would also really like the card to come with the signal sharing built into the drivers i.e all the tuners can be used from the single connected flylead into one of the inputs rather than having to split the signal and run 2, 3 or 4 fly leads
If you mean hard code it, it will not happen, as it defeats the whole purpose of having optional signal sharing capabilities.

QUOTE
Obviously compatibility with MCE, VMCE, Mediaportal and Webschedular would be a must.
All devices with BDA drivers would do that (of course note that Media Portal requires adding the relevant devices in the configuration files)

QUOTE
Software wise I haven't used DNTV for a long time but when I did it was nice and quick to setup and use but the one feature that really kept me away was the need to use a third party program to use my MCE remote with the software when most other dvb software was plug and play. If this feature was ever added I'd strongly consider having another look at the dntv software (currently using VMCE and Mediaportal)
hmm, any remote can work with DNTV Live! as long as it can be programmed with keyboard shortcuts. DNTV live! can be driven with keyboard shortcuts. smile.gif

This post has been edited by renura: Apr 4 2007, 05:21 PM


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dracmarcz
post Apr 4 2007, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (brainticket @ Mar 28 2007, 01:00 PM) *
More tuners per card! eg quad DVB-T.

Fully on board for this - what happened to the Quattro-T?

QUOTE (GALAHs @ Mar 22 2007, 11:22 AM) *
Maybe a premium card with a hdmi output and maybe some built in hardware acceleration?
QUOTE (renura @ Mar 22 2007, 10:52 PM) *
Whats wrong with Video cards, they aready do that.

I'm not expecting DigitalNow to produce it, but I always thought a video card aimed purely at the HTPC crowd might be worthwhile, with hardware decoding of MPEG2/MPEG4/H264, and a variety of output options that don't involve the use of a dongle. It seems to me that we're paying money for features on video cards we don't really need.
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daniel
post Apr 5 2007, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (renura @ Apr 4 2007, 04:53 PM) *
It is not that simple.....most people use and are happy with standard PAL connectors.
I reckon most people use pal connectors because they dont have a choice, not because they are happy about them. I agree with slayer about the f type connectors.
I think the hardware side of things is pretty good at the moment, its the software that needs improvement. For me, the best card would be pci-e, 4 tuners - all digital dvb-t(no satellite, no analog, no radio, no composite input etc), a single F-type connector and bda drivers. If it were made with a nice black pcb with matching components so it looked the business that would be good also smile.gif .

This post has been edited by daniel: Apr 5 2007, 01:31 PM
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Guest_Mcrackn_*
post Apr 5 2007, 02:12 PM
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I reckon F connectors are a good step aswell. All my fly leads have F connectors with PAL adapters.
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Guest_Slayer_*
post Apr 5 2007, 03:51 PM
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QUOTE (renura @ Apr 4 2007, 04:53 PM) *
Hopefully a happy user smile.gif
It is not that simple.....most people use and are happy with standard PAL connectors. I am sure there must be a way for you to organize your cables, so that they don't fall off.

If you mean hard code it, it will not happen, as it defeats the whole purpose of having optional signal sharing capabilities.

All devices with BDA drivers would do that (of course note that Media Portal requires adding the relevant devices in the configuration files)

hmm, any remote can work with DNTV Live! as long as it can be programmed with keyboard shortcuts. DNTV live! can be driven with keyboard shortcuts. smile.gif


Thanks for the reply Renura smile.gif

Yes I have been quite happy with the twindvb-t and the DNTV pro pci card I had before it. The regular driver updates are appreciated.

Aww look above the mob is speaking and they want the superior F-Type connectors! smile.gif

Would it not be best to put the highest quality connection (F-Type) onto your cards and let people use an adaptor of sorts if they wish to continue to use the inferior Pal connector on their cables? Having this form of connection can only help when it comes to signal strength/quality and has the side effect of a nice solid connection. To me it would give Digitalnow cards a professional high quality look/feature that not many other cards could claim to have.

Maybe I didn't word the signal sharing side of things properly but I'm pretty sure you know what I mean as a couple of your cards already support this feature as far as I know. Basically the ability to run multiple tuners from the one input coaxial cable.

Haha yeah I've had a fiddle with the keyboard shortcuts for the remote before but I think laziness got the better of me and the out of the box support for the mce remote in MCE and MP won me over smile.gif

Anyways thanks again for the reply hopefully some of the suggestions in this thread go towards creating superior dvb-t cards in the future

This post has been edited by Slayer: Apr 5 2007, 03:52 PM
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tre30
post Apr 5 2007, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE (Slayer @ Apr 5 2007, 03:51 PM) *
Thanks for the reply Renura smile.gif
Would it not be best to put the highest quality connection (F-Type) onto your cards and let people use an adaptor of sorts if they wish to continue to use the inferior Pal connector on their cables? Having this form of connection can only help when it comes to signal strength/quality and has the side effect of a nice solid connection. To me it would give Digitalnow cards a professional high quality look/feature that not many other cards could claim to have.

Totally agree there, slipping cables, you never notice till you record/watch tv and the quality is reduced. Lets face it, if you have a pc/htpc system thats any distance (think reality - not many people have pc's right next too their tv in their livingroom) from the antenna wall socket then you use quad shielded cabling too preserve the signal (and it makes a big difference - 3-4% sometimes), so it only stands too reason that if the actual digital tuner card had a quad shield then you would get the best possible input, old style coxial cables just don't cut it for digital - thats reality, sell cards with a F connector too PAL converter for people who only have coxial cable, that way you cover both bases, and provide the best too those who want it.

My only other suggestion would be - sharing dvb-t via LAN wifi, a device that you can just put at your antenna wall socket and it just feeds whatever you tell it too via wireless - no more long cables, etc. It's definately not impossible, in fact I would say its quite probable considering the latest technologies these days - 802.11n is pretty damn fast and you could theoretically stream a few channels with those speeds, and the fact that it is a protocol that works both ways you could have another device of some kind at the receiving end (IR remote->wifi receiver->wifi dvb-t server) and therefore change channels. I think many people would be interested in a product like this - you wanted ideas, thats one and worth considering.

edit: joke - think *outside* the box .. heh.
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yorikochan
post Apr 5 2007, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE (daniel @ Apr 5 2007, 01:30 PM) *
I reckon most people use pal connectors because they dont have a choice, not because they are happy about them.

PAL connectors are what im currently using, it looks just fine really. You don't really notice the difference unless you are looking for it. (then again is that a difference... or is your mind just tricking you into think its a difference?)

Maybe it is 5% better, lol. its like saying to a sound file "heres a sound file which is original sound file" then "heres another sound file which is 5% crappier" >.> tell me wheres the difference.

Lol, its proven that a person can only notice 3 things on the screen at a time. (popular video awhile back, where there was a basketballer, the audience was told to count how many bounces he made, then there was a gorilla at the background dribbling a ball across the court.... After the experiment, nobody noticed the gorilla was even on the court...)

Humans only notice things when they are looking for it. XD If you have never placed PAL Connection Video and F-Type Connection video side by side, you wouldnt even notice which one is which.
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Guest_Slayer_*
post Apr 5 2007, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE (yorikochan @ Apr 5 2007, 07:22 PM) *
PAL connectors are what im currently using, it looks just fine really. You don't really notice the difference unless you are looking for it. (then again is that a difference... or is your mind just tricking you into think its a difference?)

Maybe it is 5% better, lol. its like saying to a sound file "heres a sound file which is original sound file" then "heres another sound file which is 5% crappier" >.> tell me wheres the difference.

Lol, its proven that a person can only notice 3 things on the screen at a time. (popular video awhile back, where there was a basketballer, the audience was told to count how many bounces he made, then there was a gorilla at the background dribbling a ball across the court.... After the experiment, nobody noticed the gorilla was even on the court...)

Humans only notice things when they are looking for it. XD If you have never placed PAL Connection Video and F-Type Connection video side by side, you wouldnt even notice which one is which.



Ummm not quite sure you're using the right analogies in this case.

We aren't asking for F-Type connectors for better "picture" quality we are asking for F-Type connectors for better "signal" quality amongst many other positives.

Of course a digital picture without interference is going to look the same whether its connected via a pal or f-type connection, however the f-type connection may help to reduce interference/impulse noise/signal strength over longer distances. All of which should reduce stuttering/breakups/pauses which are definately noticeable and far from placebo!
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tre30
post Apr 6 2007, 01:26 AM
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QUOTE (yorikochan @ Apr 5 2007, 07:22 PM) *
Humans only notice things when they are looking for it. XD If you have never placed PAL Connection Video and F-Type Connection video side by side, you wouldnt even notice which one is which.


heh not sure where you get that idea from mate, but F connectors are screw on and PAL coxial connectors just slide connect, and that 5% you talked of, that could be the difference between falling off the 'digital divide' (unwatchable believe me) and having a good signal, so I think having F connectors on the actual card is quite valid & appropriate.
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Guest_Legacy_*
post Apr 6 2007, 01:49 AM
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QUOTE (renura @ Apr 4 2007, 11:40 AM) *
There is a difference between hardware devices (which is really the subject of this thread) and DTV solutions which would include such things as hardware, drivers, applications and operating systems, etc. Whatever happens it is unlikely that there would be full support for X64 in the near future smile.gif


I'm happily using my original card I got from you in 2003 in Vista x64 now. Quite impressed with this considering almost no cards will do that and my ancient old Twinhan does, albeit with unofficial modded drivers smile.gif

Still, how hard could it be for more manufacturers to provide 64bit (x64) drivers, even if it is a small market. Maybe I'm not seeing the full picture. Anyway this is going off topic...
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tre30
post Apr 7 2007, 05:59 PM
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Just as an additional note too renura, it seems that I'm not the only one who believes that wireless + dvb = a good thing...
http://www.wirelesshd.org
There are some pretty big names putting themselves behind the development of the technology so it definately will happen.
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renura
post Apr 11 2007, 11:36 AM
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There is no doubt that wireless devices and DVB-T are good things smile.gif


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renura
post Apr 11 2007, 04:48 PM
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Have you guys ever seen a TV set with F-connectors?


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kenneth
post Apr 11 2007, 06:55 PM
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QUOTE (renura @ Apr 11 2007, 04:48 PM) *
Have you guys ever seen a TV set with F-connectors?


From memory, never. None of the sets at work have them.


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tre30
post Apr 11 2007, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (renura @ Apr 11 2007, 04:48 PM) *
Have you guys ever seen a TV set with F-connectors?


No but when you look at it logically a PC with a digital card is more akin too a set-top box than a tv, and satellite set-top boxes use F connectors. The reasons presented are all in favour of F connectors except one - ease of connection (and that also becomes a disadvantage and previously stated).
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renura
post Apr 11 2007, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE (tre30 @ Apr 11 2007, 07:36 PM) *
No but when you look at it logically a PC with a digital card is more akin too a set-top box than a tv, and satellite set-top boxes use F connectors. The reasons presented are all in favour of F connectors except one - ease of connection (and that also becomes a disadvantage and previously stated).

The main problem is that most cards are made for the world market and not just Australia, and unless we have demand from everywhere it will not change easily as it require a redesign - its not just a matter of changing a plug smile.gif

This post has been edited by renura: Apr 11 2007, 08:43 PM


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Guest_uqeus_*
post Apr 11 2007, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (renura @ Apr 11 2007, 08:41 PM) *
The main problem is that most cards are made for the world market and not just Australia, and unless we have demand from everywhere it will not change easily as it require a redesign - its not just a matter of changing a plug smile.gif



What you may find is it is not a redesign but a simple Bill Of Materials change. Looking at the quattro and the pcie dual the connectors may be interchangeable with F type but of course this would have to looked at. Hence it could be achieved relatiavely cheaply or at no extra cost to change a connector for 1K - 5K qty of a production run.

Now not knowing what sort of quantity or relationship you have with the manufactuere this may or may not be possible.

On another note industry standard seems to dictate PAL type connector for terrestrial TV and F connectors for satellite. It may increase support request if it is changed and this alone may not make it worth it.

Cheers
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renura
post Apr 11 2007, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE
What you may find is it is not a redesign but a simple Bill Of Materials change. Looking at the quattro and the pcie dual the connectors may be interchangeable with F type but of course this would have to looked at. Hence it could be achieved relatiavely cheaply or at no extra cost to change a connector for 1K - 5K qty of a production run.
It maybe OK for the QuattroS, because of the way it is designed but for most cards it would require repositioning the tuner on the PCB and hence major redesign, this is particularly so for a lot of USB devices, which tend to have the RF socked built into the housing, rather than sticking out.

QUOTE
On another note industry standard seems to dictate PAL type connector for terrestrial TV and F connectors for satellite. It may increase support request if it is changed and this alone may not make it worth it.
Yes that is generally the case, and I can guarantee you that if we had F-Type connectors without an F-Type to PAL adaptor we would surely be in trouble.


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daniel
post Apr 15 2007, 06:34 PM
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QUOTE (renura @ Apr 11 2007, 04:48 PM) *
Have you guys ever seen a TV set with F-connectors?
You asked us what we wanted in a DVB-T device for the future. We answered.
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